Post From Dinar Updates 3-11-16
Chat Room Excerpts & Highlights
Dinar Updates Friday AM Chat 3-11-16 Part 2 of 3
subgirl says to wmawhite():thank you mr white for explaining the bonds issue with us! :) YOU ROCK!!
R&R says to wmawhite():Yes... thank you (y)
billuke says to tman23():but also along with making it attractive, a change in currency rate will also change the prices of goods & services - within the country.
joyojoy says():Would someone show the math for the return in country on these bonds?
joyojoy says():please
billuke says to joyojoy():if it's 6%, then 1182 would be 1252.92 in one year
billuke says to joyojoy():if you're in Vietnam, 22,286, in one year 6% would give you 23623.16
~~~
Chat Room Excerpts & Highlights
Dinar Updates Friday AM Chat 3-11-16 Part 2 of 3
subgirl says to wmawhite():thank you mr white for explaining the bonds issue with us! :) YOU ROCK!!
R&R says to wmawhite():Yes... thank you (y)
billuke says to tman23():but also along with making it attractive, a change in currency rate will also change the prices of goods & services - within the country.
joyojoy says():Would someone show the math for the return in country on these bonds?
joyojoy says():please
billuke says to joyojoy():if it's 6%, then 1182 would be 1252.92 in one year
billuke says to joyojoy():if you're in Vietnam, 22,286, in one year 6% would give you 23623.16
~~~
joyojoy says to billuke():So the difference between those numbers in in dinars? the return is 70.92 dinars
clay01 says():the 6% doesnt mean much, it could be 8 or 10, the thing that is interesting is the amount the bonds will be sold in, 250, 000 dinars
R&R says to joyojoy():THe smallest face value is 100,000 ($90) with a 6% coupon and a 2-year term. They would get 6,000 dinar interest ($6) the first year and then 6,000 dinar plus their 100,000 principal ($96) at the end of year two.
R&R says to joyojoy():Use the same math for any of the other bonds (250K face, 1million face, etc.)
joyojoy says to R&R():that is what I thouht but this discussion has confused me.
billuke says to joyojoy():correct - because it's only reflective what that particular country's rate is
larrykn says to R&R():now put a real rate to that and what kind of returns would you get
joyojoy says to R&R():is it not true that the exchange rate does not matter in country?
tman23 says():Say you purchased the emerging market bond for 250,000 dinar and Iraq lifted the 3 zeros and the rate was 1-1.... that bond is 250,000 dinar regardless.......
BUT lets say when they lift the 3 zeros they also lifted them from the currency notes on an exchange.......25,000 note becoming 25........ you have 25 dinar on exchange...
NOW don't freak out and say oh NO LOP.......I am only presenting an example......and I do not know exactly how these bonds are being offered.........They made sure before to say paid in USD......
joyojoy says to R&R():as it relates to these bonds?
R&R says to joyojoy():Honestly, I wish I was smart enough to answer that question ({) That's beyond my capabilities. I know my limits! LOL (F)
dinarmassa says():I was under the understanding the bonds were being sold internationally to spurt investments, is that not true
R&R says):What I can tell you though is that Iraq (through Zebari) told us last year they wanted to raise $7 billion dollars through bonds sales both foreign and domestic.
joyojoy says to R&R():Okay thank you!
billuke says to dinarmassa():I believe they're in-country bonds
wmawhite says to joyojoy():Please explain to me how the international exchange rate matters inside a country whennnnnnn, get this, when there is not an exchange rate inside a country, They only apply outside.
R&R says():The started the motions both ways, but ran into problems. First, when they tried to float the international bonds, they told us the investors terms "were too exorbitant" and that the rate necessary was too expensive.
Baxter1243 says():I doubt that will happen... 7 Billion.... love to know where the money is going to come from...40% unemployment.. most of those with Govt jobs... dont get paid regularly... bonds may help a tad.. but I wouldnt expect much at all..
joyojoy says to wmawhite():I agree
Baxter1243 says():especially when they dont trust the banks... and who could blame them with all thats been in print lately...
R&R says():So then they decided to break it up into tranches, with the 2 billion "national bond" which you are seeing now...but there was a problem....
R&R says():Remember this article?
billuke says to Baxter1243():well, these bond sales could again, this would be a 4th time, I believe
R&R says():Central Bank: the public retains 85% of the money circulating in the market
February 16, 2016 http://ift.tt/1SHJIby
billuke says to Baxter1243():could again fail
R&R says():THe problem with the national bond as you guys are saying is that most of the money is held in cash by the citizens.... not in the banks
Baxter1243 says():I think these bond sales are more to satifsy the iMF that they are at least trying..
R&R says():How do you reach these people? Go door-to-door? Here in the US, we call our brokers, or they call us. No so over there.
R&R says():It's hard to sell 2 billion in debt door-to-door....
wmawhite says to R&R(The issue of if people buy the bonds has nothing to do with thevalue of the IQD outside of Iraq. Instead, it has much to do with the availability of cash.
R&R says to wmawhite():I agree, assuming that comment was for me
wmawhite says to R&R():yep
trout1 says():sure looks to me like desperate attempts to reduce the note count in preperation to realese the lower denoms
Hutch says to wmawhite():You have done an excellent job of explaining the bond issue.. Thank You For all you do !!
R&R says():So Iraq is trying to solve several problems all at once. They overreaching problem is the budget deficit. They have chosen not to sell bonds internationally now, because the terms are to difficult. They want to do the "national" bonds inside Iraq, but they need citizens to (1) be enticed to buy; and (2) open bank accounts and put their cash in the bank
larrykn says to R&R():totally agree :)
Baxter1243 says():I wish them Luck.... with all thats been printed about Banks lately...
R&R says():By doing so, this solves two problems: (1) it kick starts, the bank system because people start using the banking system, and the banking system can start functioning the way it is supposed to
R&R says():And (2), it is so much easier to sell gov't debt when the gov't has the full power of the banks and brokerages to reach out to the public. Not the door-to-door method they would have to use when 85% of the money are attracting is in mattresses
R&R says():So this much more than an 1186 or 1-1 issue....it's bigger IMO. But it all ties together.
Pablo says():So what's the enticement for getting the cash out of the mattresses?
Baxter1243 says():the Big 6% return I guess.
larrykn says to R&R):I'm still trying to figure how they are going to get the people to take their money out from under their mattresses and put it in the bank
Pablo says():6%,.......wooo, I can retire and live the life of luxury. :)
wmawhite says to Hutch():yw
R&R says():RIght now, IMO 6% interest.... but Abadi is also speaking out a lot to the citizens these days trying to "encourage" them to buy into, and believe in, the plan. I think this is where the reforms help.
R&R says():Both the ministerial, and economic reforms, that is
rcookie says():THE BOND SALES ARE NOT TO SATISFY THE IMF....THEY ARE A DEFICT BRIDGE IN THE 2016 BUDGET....
rcookie says():GM ALL....
larrykn says():if the people believe in Adabi I think they will get this done, I pray they do believe in him
wmawhite says to rcookie():thank you for bring that out. It is internal to Iraq.
rcookie says():JUST READ IT.....
rcookie says():AS ARE PAYING ARREARS...AS ARE THE GUARANTEED GE & BOEING CONTRACTS...AS ARE THE CUSTOMS TARIFFS 2010...AS ARE THE 50% PROVINCE TARIFF REVENUES FROM PORTS...AS ARE THE 5% PROVINCIAL OIL REVENUES...
rcookie says():ITS A FULLY EXECUTING BUDGET....
dinarmassa says():understand what has been explained about the bonds domestic sales, but have to agree with the statement made, if people are broke how can they afford bonds.. many failures in the past trying to sell bonds
rcookie says():THE 22 BILLION DEFICIT...WAS TO BE PLUGGED WITH INTERNAL & EXTERNAL LOANS AND TREASURY BONDS WORTH 12 BILLION DOLLARS....
rcookie says():IRAQI CITIZENS...WHILST THEY ARE EXPERIENCING SEVERELY CHALLENGING ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS (POVERTY & UNEMPLOYMENT) ARE CERTAINLY ENGAGED IN INVESTMENT....
AS THEY ARE THE SINGLE LARGEST FOREIGN INVESTORS IN REAL ESTATE IN THEIR NEIGHBORS JORDAN & TURKEY....THE LARGEST!!!
dinarmassa says to rcookie():taking out the corruption who were buying, what was left
rcookie says():??
dinarmassa says to rcookie():you indicated the largest investors in realestate, was that purchasing done by the corrupted side of Iraq
rcookie says():THE EDUCATIONAL PORTHOLE ON CBI AND ALL RELATED BANKS...IS TO WORK TOWARD DIFUSING THE DISTRUST AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE TOWARD BASIC GENERAL BANKING CONCEPTS AND PRINCIPLES.....
dinarmassa says():it all boils back to the trust issues
rcookie says to dinarmassa():SOME YES....BUT OTHERS LOOKING FOR BASIC INVESTMENT VEHICLES....
cookie says to dinarmassa():NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT...BUT THERE IS AN ACTION PLAN IN PROCESS TO ADDRESS....
dinarmassa says():Taking away the corruption its hard to figure where the expendable money lies.
rcookie says to dinarmassa():B - The Federal Minister of Finance shall be authorised to continue
rcookie says to dinarmassa():borrowing cash or issue bonds or money transfers, with Cabinet
dinarmassa says():an RV would immediately provide investment dollars to the domestic investors
wmawhite says to dinarmassa():That is not so..............a IQD value at $3.00 is still only 1 IQD inside iraq.
rcookie says to dinarmassa():approval, for the purpose of bridging the actual deficit in the
rcookie says to dinarmassa():General Federal Budget, or for any other purpose as stated in this law, to: -
dinarmassa says():I understand the value in country of the dinar, but an RV will allow my spendable dinars to invest or whatever due to the fact it doesn't take as many dinars to but products
dinarmassa says():buy products
rcookie says to dinarmassa():ABOUT 150 DEMONSTRATORS IN TAHRIR SQUARE TODAY....
dinarmassa says():I'm about ready to join them
dinarmassa says():wearing my antisuicide vest
rcookie says():IRAQ SIGNED MOU WITH EGYPT CONCERNING OIL........
tman23 says():PM Haider al-Abadi has recently delivered a letter to Iraqi political factions, asking them to suggest their candidates within one week (by next Wednesday) as he is planning to re-form the cabinet sooner than planned.
Pablo says):I thought they already had presented their names.
clay01 says():the 6% doesnt mean much, it could be 8 or 10, the thing that is interesting is the amount the bonds will be sold in, 250, 000 dinars
R&R says to joyojoy():THe smallest face value is 100,000 ($90) with a 6% coupon and a 2-year term. They would get 6,000 dinar interest ($6) the first year and then 6,000 dinar plus their 100,000 principal ($96) at the end of year two.
R&R says to joyojoy():Use the same math for any of the other bonds (250K face, 1million face, etc.)
joyojoy says to R&R():that is what I thouht but this discussion has confused me.
billuke says to joyojoy():correct - because it's only reflective what that particular country's rate is
larrykn says to R&R():now put a real rate to that and what kind of returns would you get
joyojoy says to R&R():is it not true that the exchange rate does not matter in country?
tman23 says():Say you purchased the emerging market bond for 250,000 dinar and Iraq lifted the 3 zeros and the rate was 1-1.... that bond is 250,000 dinar regardless.......
BUT lets say when they lift the 3 zeros they also lifted them from the currency notes on an exchange.......25,000 note becoming 25........ you have 25 dinar on exchange...
NOW don't freak out and say oh NO LOP.......I am only presenting an example......and I do not know exactly how these bonds are being offered.........They made sure before to say paid in USD......
joyojoy says to R&R():as it relates to these bonds?
R&R says to joyojoy():Honestly, I wish I was smart enough to answer that question ({) That's beyond my capabilities. I know my limits! LOL (F)
dinarmassa says():I was under the understanding the bonds were being sold internationally to spurt investments, is that not true
R&R says):What I can tell you though is that Iraq (through Zebari) told us last year they wanted to raise $7 billion dollars through bonds sales both foreign and domestic.
joyojoy says to R&R():Okay thank you!
billuke says to dinarmassa():I believe they're in-country bonds
wmawhite says to joyojoy():Please explain to me how the international exchange rate matters inside a country whennnnnnn, get this, when there is not an exchange rate inside a country, They only apply outside.
R&R says():The started the motions both ways, but ran into problems. First, when they tried to float the international bonds, they told us the investors terms "were too exorbitant" and that the rate necessary was too expensive.
Baxter1243 says():I doubt that will happen... 7 Billion.... love to know where the money is going to come from...40% unemployment.. most of those with Govt jobs... dont get paid regularly... bonds may help a tad.. but I wouldnt expect much at all..
joyojoy says to wmawhite():I agree
Baxter1243 says():especially when they dont trust the banks... and who could blame them with all thats been in print lately...
R&R says():So then they decided to break it up into tranches, with the 2 billion "national bond" which you are seeing now...but there was a problem....
R&R says():Remember this article?
billuke says to Baxter1243():well, these bond sales could again, this would be a 4th time, I believe
R&R says():Central Bank: the public retains 85% of the money circulating in the market
February 16, 2016 http://ift.tt/1SHJIby
billuke says to Baxter1243():could again fail
R&R says():THe problem with the national bond as you guys are saying is that most of the money is held in cash by the citizens.... not in the banks
Baxter1243 says():I think these bond sales are more to satifsy the iMF that they are at least trying..
R&R says():How do you reach these people? Go door-to-door? Here in the US, we call our brokers, or they call us. No so over there.
R&R says():It's hard to sell 2 billion in debt door-to-door....
wmawhite says to R&R(The issue of if people buy the bonds has nothing to do with thevalue of the IQD outside of Iraq. Instead, it has much to do with the availability of cash.
R&R says to wmawhite():I agree, assuming that comment was for me
wmawhite says to R&R():yep
trout1 says():sure looks to me like desperate attempts to reduce the note count in preperation to realese the lower denoms
Hutch says to wmawhite():You have done an excellent job of explaining the bond issue.. Thank You For all you do !!
R&R says():So Iraq is trying to solve several problems all at once. They overreaching problem is the budget deficit. They have chosen not to sell bonds internationally now, because the terms are to difficult. They want to do the "national" bonds inside Iraq, but they need citizens to (1) be enticed to buy; and (2) open bank accounts and put their cash in the bank
larrykn says to R&R():totally agree :)
Baxter1243 says():I wish them Luck.... with all thats been printed about Banks lately...
R&R says():By doing so, this solves two problems: (1) it kick starts, the bank system because people start using the banking system, and the banking system can start functioning the way it is supposed to
R&R says():And (2), it is so much easier to sell gov't debt when the gov't has the full power of the banks and brokerages to reach out to the public. Not the door-to-door method they would have to use when 85% of the money are attracting is in mattresses
R&R says():So this much more than an 1186 or 1-1 issue....it's bigger IMO. But it all ties together.
Pablo says():So what's the enticement for getting the cash out of the mattresses?
Baxter1243 says():the Big 6% return I guess.
larrykn says to R&R):I'm still trying to figure how they are going to get the people to take their money out from under their mattresses and put it in the bank
Pablo says():6%,.......wooo, I can retire and live the life of luxury. :)
wmawhite says to Hutch():yw
R&R says():RIght now, IMO 6% interest.... but Abadi is also speaking out a lot to the citizens these days trying to "encourage" them to buy into, and believe in, the plan. I think this is where the reforms help.
R&R says():Both the ministerial, and economic reforms, that is
rcookie says():THE BOND SALES ARE NOT TO SATISFY THE IMF....THEY ARE A DEFICT BRIDGE IN THE 2016 BUDGET....
rcookie says():GM ALL....
larrykn says():if the people believe in Adabi I think they will get this done, I pray they do believe in him
wmawhite says to rcookie():thank you for bring that out. It is internal to Iraq.
rcookie says():JUST READ IT.....
rcookie says():AS ARE PAYING ARREARS...AS ARE THE GUARANTEED GE & BOEING CONTRACTS...AS ARE THE CUSTOMS TARIFFS 2010...AS ARE THE 50% PROVINCE TARIFF REVENUES FROM PORTS...AS ARE THE 5% PROVINCIAL OIL REVENUES...
rcookie says():ITS A FULLY EXECUTING BUDGET....
dinarmassa says():understand what has been explained about the bonds domestic sales, but have to agree with the statement made, if people are broke how can they afford bonds.. many failures in the past trying to sell bonds
rcookie says():THE 22 BILLION DEFICIT...WAS TO BE PLUGGED WITH INTERNAL & EXTERNAL LOANS AND TREASURY BONDS WORTH 12 BILLION DOLLARS....
rcookie says():IRAQI CITIZENS...WHILST THEY ARE EXPERIENCING SEVERELY CHALLENGING ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS (POVERTY & UNEMPLOYMENT) ARE CERTAINLY ENGAGED IN INVESTMENT....
AS THEY ARE THE SINGLE LARGEST FOREIGN INVESTORS IN REAL ESTATE IN THEIR NEIGHBORS JORDAN & TURKEY....THE LARGEST!!!
dinarmassa says to rcookie():taking out the corruption who were buying, what was left
rcookie says():??
dinarmassa says to rcookie():you indicated the largest investors in realestate, was that purchasing done by the corrupted side of Iraq
rcookie says():THE EDUCATIONAL PORTHOLE ON CBI AND ALL RELATED BANKS...IS TO WORK TOWARD DIFUSING THE DISTRUST AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE TOWARD BASIC GENERAL BANKING CONCEPTS AND PRINCIPLES.....
dinarmassa says():it all boils back to the trust issues
rcookie says to dinarmassa():SOME YES....BUT OTHERS LOOKING FOR BASIC INVESTMENT VEHICLES....
cookie says to dinarmassa():NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT...BUT THERE IS AN ACTION PLAN IN PROCESS TO ADDRESS....
dinarmassa says():Taking away the corruption its hard to figure where the expendable money lies.
rcookie says to dinarmassa():B - The Federal Minister of Finance shall be authorised to continue
rcookie says to dinarmassa():borrowing cash or issue bonds or money transfers, with Cabinet
dinarmassa says():an RV would immediately provide investment dollars to the domestic investors
wmawhite says to dinarmassa():That is not so..............a IQD value at $3.00 is still only 1 IQD inside iraq.
rcookie says to dinarmassa():approval, for the purpose of bridging the actual deficit in the
rcookie says to dinarmassa():General Federal Budget, or for any other purpose as stated in this law, to: -
dinarmassa says():I understand the value in country of the dinar, but an RV will allow my spendable dinars to invest or whatever due to the fact it doesn't take as many dinars to but products
dinarmassa says():buy products
rcookie says to dinarmassa():ABOUT 150 DEMONSTRATORS IN TAHRIR SQUARE TODAY....
dinarmassa says():I'm about ready to join them
dinarmassa says():wearing my antisuicide vest
rcookie says():IRAQ SIGNED MOU WITH EGYPT CONCERNING OIL........
tman23 says():PM Haider al-Abadi has recently delivered a letter to Iraqi political factions, asking them to suggest their candidates within one week (by next Wednesday) as he is planning to re-form the cabinet sooner than planned.
Pablo says):I thought they already had presented their names.
dinarmassa says():Years ago there was a great deal of talk that an RV could happen at a $10.00 rate, have we ever considered that a much higher rate could occur early, then reduce to some leveling off rate. Just Curious when looking at potential growth besides oil, and gold reserves on hand
tman23 says():Iraq has already issued Treasury bonds to domestic banks and has international bonds. The Bank said in a statement e-mailed to the new version by six percent and will be sold to the public and local banks, from 15 March to 15 April.
poppy3 says to tman23():SO THE ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE BOND SALE AND STOCK EXCHANGE BEING ACTIVATED ON MARCH 15TH IS OUT OF THE POSSIBILITIES AGAIN .
NO VALUE ADDED SO THE BONDS CAN BRING IN MONEY AND NOT COST . NO BUDGET FUNDING FROM BOND SALES. POPPY3
slh5282 says to rcookie():any idea as to when you guys are going to do another call? I thought i heard on thursday but did not see where it occurred.
R&R says to Pablo():Sadr's group has and I think the NA did as well (though they originally asking for 6 more months) Just waiting for the others to submit their picks for consideration...
Pablo says():Ahhh, thanks.
R&R says to Pablo():(y)
Pablo says to poppy3():Couldn't they RV on the weekend to add value?
Comments may be made at the end of Part 3 Thank You
tman23 says():Iraq has already issued Treasury bonds to domestic banks and has international bonds. The Bank said in a statement e-mailed to the new version by six percent and will be sold to the public and local banks, from 15 March to 15 April.
poppy3 says to tman23():SO THE ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE BOND SALE AND STOCK EXCHANGE BEING ACTIVATED ON MARCH 15TH IS OUT OF THE POSSIBILITIES AGAIN .
NO VALUE ADDED SO THE BONDS CAN BRING IN MONEY AND NOT COST . NO BUDGET FUNDING FROM BOND SALES. POPPY3
slh5282 says to rcookie():any idea as to when you guys are going to do another call? I thought i heard on thursday but did not see where it occurred.
R&R says to Pablo():Sadr's group has and I think the NA did as well (though they originally asking for 6 more months) Just waiting for the others to submit their picks for consideration...
Pablo says():Ahhh, thanks.
R&R says to Pablo():(y)
Pablo says to poppy3():Couldn't they RV on the weekend to add value?
Comments may be made at the end of Part 3 Thank You
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