More Reader Comments On “Get Out Of Gold Now While It’s High”
Earlier Post Part 1 & Part 2
Bruno de Landevoisin My brother, Gold remains the best performing asset class of the New Monetized Millennium, by a country mile. You can be the first to call me when that changes;-)
JC Collins Define the new monetized millennium?
Bruno de Landevoisin 2000 -2015 Extremely accommodating Monetary Policy: (Fed rate below 3%, ZIRP/QE)
Alan an interesting way to advertise your material. Thanks Bruno, I’ll have a look.
http://ift.tt/1OVUQ3P
~~~
Earlier Post Part 1 & Part 2
Bruno de Landevoisin My brother, Gold remains the best performing asset class of the New Monetized Millennium, by a country mile. You can be the first to call me when that changes;-)
JC Collins Define the new monetized millennium?
Bruno de Landevoisin 2000 -2015 Extremely accommodating Monetary Policy: (Fed rate below 3%, ZIRP/QE)
Alan an interesting way to advertise your material. Thanks Bruno, I’ll have a look.
http://ift.tt/1OVUQ3P
~~~
Alan Bruno my brother, I’m a google’r and excellent at it. I’m massively interested in the source of my resources. It’s for that sake alone I look into who you represent Bruno, or anyone for that matter that asserts a strong opinion – this way, that way or the other.
I enjoy reading the discourse on this site. But, I have to be vocal when I disagree with the origins of resources. I politely don’t agree with your views and I don’t necessarily support your resources.
Bruno de Landevoisin United States & France - Contributor to leading Macroeconomic blogs; StealthFlation, Zerohedge, Stockman’s Contra Corner, GoldSilver.com, Automatic Earth, Slope of Hope, FSN, NFTRH…….. Brown Univ. BA Economics
I think it’s only fair to show your hand when it’s so availble :)
Bruno de Landevoisin I have no issue with that Alan. However, for the record, please keep in mind that most here are well aware of my views on the hard asset class.
Gold has a proven longstanding role as real money providing wealth protection throughout human monetary history. (6,000 years)
When the existing monetary system fails, the trust between trading partners is broken. Fiat currency promises are no longer valued by standing nations, at which point gold becomes the only trusted monetary common denominator which the next fiat based trading currency is anchored to. Why else do you think all the major central banks of the world continue to hold it as a crucial reserve.
The IMF SDR construct is a fiat monetary system based on a globally accepted monetary order, what makes you so sure that nations will readily trust a centrally controlled, U.S. centric monetary contract, especially after the trust between nations has been decimated by a debased fraudulently backed world reserve currency, namely the US Dollar.
Same as it ever was………………. All the best, Bruno
JC Collins Every gold system has also been debased and corrupted. Same as it ever was…..
Alan Hi Bruno, thanks for your reply. This is going to seem like I’m poking the sleeping bear :) But</b. I find your statement:
Gold has a proven longstanding role as real money providing wealth protection throughout human monetary history. (6,000 years)
quite misleading and untrue. Perhaps I haven’t found the resources you have for such a statement. In the interest of those that are reading and keen to learn, could you please provide some links that support such a comment.
JC Collins Alan, I do agree with you questioning the whole 6000 years of gold wealth protection. The numbers and facts, many of which are lost to the sands of time, can be interpreted many different ways.
The fact that every gold standard system has eventually been debased and collapsed is a testament to the loss of wealth which has transpired over the years. Gold, like everything else, is a tool used to transfer wealth, being the time and labor of the people, from the bottom to the top.
The masses are so easy to manipulate in regards to wealth management. Few even think for themselves, as it’s easier to allow others to think for us. We’re herded into ideological pens and a thousand straws are used to suck our time and labor away.
We are farmed, and only a few of us have enough sense to realize that the fence is an illusion. The rest eagerly run to the trough when it is filled.
To think that gold is not another method of transferring wealth is foolish and dangerously hopeful for those who don’t fully understand the monetary-agricultural techniques which are used on the disorganized masses. There. That’s my philosophical and conspiratorial rant for the day.
Bruno de Landevoisin One final comment J.C. The value of Gold is not at all about inflation.
It’s the only proven wealth protection insurance hedge against monetary collapses, which occur regularly every 200 years or so.
It becomes especially crucial to hold when the current monetary system is in jeopardy, and about to become unhinged, as it is today……
I hope the IMF SDR becomes the next global monetary construct, but I fear you put way too much trust in mankind’s hands.
Human-beings only come to their senses after they are slammed in the face through much turmoil and suffering. What makes you so sure that today’s leaders are any different? I would readily make the case that our current global leadership is perhaps even more suspect than those that came before.
JC Collins Alan, thanks for the support and additional research you provide. You are definitely an asset to this site my friend. Bruno and I approach this monetary shift from different positions. And that’s okay. He has always been polite and courteous, and I appreciate that. You both strike me as gentlemen. I wish I could say the same about myself.
Bruno de Landevoisin My friend, Advertising for PMs on J.C. site is the least of my objective here whatsoever. I actually posted this anti-Gold article on my site;-)
I consider myself JC’s friend, and actually post all his Free POM on my free blog: http://ift.tt/1BBQWoH Best, Bruno
Speedspirit Appreciate the education and the opportunity to debate, I hold no grudge, I mean no harm. Thank you.
hugovictor54 Dear J.C.: When the whole thing blows up come down to Arkansas with me and drink some whiskey. We can shoot some deer and catch some fish. Bring the wife, it’s not so bad. Jack
pedrofalls Gold and the high fever it has always been able to infect man with remains as contagious today as it was since the soft shine was first discovered. A malarial madness, delirium tremens, sweating, trembling, anxiety, confusion and hallucinations gold ,gold. That *** gold!!
Where is it? Who’s got it? What are they going to do with it? Why, why, why and when to buy when to sell and when does the love of it condemn one to hell.
Ya gotta admit it, that ***gold is one emotional metal, but it doesn’t have to be. Right , wrong or indifferent it is not a investment that should be made in a fever.
Most gold mine’s are a hole in the ground with a liar standing on the rim of it, I always have wanted to use that line and for what it’s worth now I have. Good day.
Excitableone JC, do you think any of this ties into an ET disclosure/cabal/illuminati downfall? I love your articles and feel very connected to the information provided. You have been very informative. I also appreciate your spirit and demeanor.
chuc1997 JC, gold is falling because China is buying so much physical gold. The price of gold you cite is a “claim check” on a gold deposit. China is asking for the actual gold.
There is a bank run going on. Gold futures will go towards $0. At some point before it gets there, it will stop trading in dollars. Then it will trade in either CNY or SDR at a price converted back to USD that is so high it will make your eyes water.
If this does not happen then the only investments you will need will be friends, farmland and shotguns because the financial world will have ended.
JC Collins That comment is, unfortunately, loaded with unsubstantiated and doom-porn positions. I can’t formulate a proper response. Sorry my friend.
chuc1997 Gold trades at 4,000 in Brazil Real; 7,000 in RMB; 70,000 in RUB…you call for the devaluation of USD v EM currencies through SDR. So why will gold not ultimately be much higher in USD?
JC Collins The dollar and gold may depreciate together for a period of time. The argument that gold increases when the dollar decreases is extremely simplistic and should be investigated further.
Just because the USD depreciates doesn’t mean that demand for gold will increase. Using a trade weighted index, there is a precedent of a tandem depreciation in both. As stated in another response, I may write more on that this evening.
Bruno de Landevoisin The Honorable Gold Backed Dollar - The Strategic Petro Backed Dollar -- The Current Bomb Backed Dollar Kaboom!!!!!
Back to the honorable Gold backed Dollar -- Same as it ever was…………;-)
Bausser (@bausser) Hello all and thank you JC for setting up this forum; you may have explained this somewhere else but why do you think the USD gold price will fall when the RMB inclusion into the SDR basket and the resultant re-balancing of reserves will depreciate the USD?
Also the case has been made that if the rates increase in December the money velocity may finally increase putting pressure on the USD; in both scenarios the (paper) gold price in USD should rise, no?
JC Collins That is the logic that most follow. But what isn’t considered is the massive renminbi liquidity market which will be created in the coming months. The demand for renminbi will provide an alternative to the USD as it moderately depreciates by 20% to 30%.
The key to all of this is when will China end the dollar peg and allow the RMB to freely float. That time frame could very well dictate when the dollar begins to depreciate. As for gold going up when the dollar goes down, that assumption, though correct for the most part, is not always a guarantee.
We could see a period of time, especially during the initial phase of reserve diversification, where gold and the dollar both depreciate together. I may write more on this later this evening as I’m sitting in a hotel room in Vancouver and have little else to do.
David d Aylward (@Aylward5) The IMF at times has served as a conduit for private bank investment in EM economies. IMF provides the policies and private banks provide the bulk of the liquidity.
The IMF also helps mitigate default risk by being the first and sometimes only party to restructure its loan(thanks taxpayers!). Without a strong and deeply liquid private bank sector with a large customer base to sell to, I don’t know how China benefits much.
Western banks who have been investing in emerging markets for decades if not centuries and have been successfully partnering with the IMF to enter markets for years. Could RMB inclusion, at this point, be mainly for China’s political and economic influence to open up more of the Asian markets for private foreign investment?
Unless the IMF allows a more market oriented approach to its SDR composition I can’t see how it serves as a widely used reserve asset. I say all of this as pure humble speculation of course, Thanks!
I enjoy reading the discourse on this site. But, I have to be vocal when I disagree with the origins of resources. I politely don’t agree with your views and I don’t necessarily support your resources.
Bruno de Landevoisin United States & France - Contributor to leading Macroeconomic blogs; StealthFlation, Zerohedge, Stockman’s Contra Corner, GoldSilver.com, Automatic Earth, Slope of Hope, FSN, NFTRH…….. Brown Univ. BA Economics
I think it’s only fair to show your hand when it’s so availble :)
Bruno de Landevoisin I have no issue with that Alan. However, for the record, please keep in mind that most here are well aware of my views on the hard asset class.
Gold has a proven longstanding role as real money providing wealth protection throughout human monetary history. (6,000 years)
When the existing monetary system fails, the trust between trading partners is broken. Fiat currency promises are no longer valued by standing nations, at which point gold becomes the only trusted monetary common denominator which the next fiat based trading currency is anchored to. Why else do you think all the major central banks of the world continue to hold it as a crucial reserve.
The IMF SDR construct is a fiat monetary system based on a globally accepted monetary order, what makes you so sure that nations will readily trust a centrally controlled, U.S. centric monetary contract, especially after the trust between nations has been decimated by a debased fraudulently backed world reserve currency, namely the US Dollar.
Same as it ever was………………. All the best, Bruno
JC Collins Every gold system has also been debased and corrupted. Same as it ever was…..
Alan Hi Bruno, thanks for your reply. This is going to seem like I’m poking the sleeping bear :) But</b. I find your statement:
Gold has a proven longstanding role as real money providing wealth protection throughout human monetary history. (6,000 years)
quite misleading and untrue. Perhaps I haven’t found the resources you have for such a statement. In the interest of those that are reading and keen to learn, could you please provide some links that support such a comment.
JC Collins Alan, I do agree with you questioning the whole 6000 years of gold wealth protection. The numbers and facts, many of which are lost to the sands of time, can be interpreted many different ways.
The fact that every gold standard system has eventually been debased and collapsed is a testament to the loss of wealth which has transpired over the years. Gold, like everything else, is a tool used to transfer wealth, being the time and labor of the people, from the bottom to the top.
The masses are so easy to manipulate in regards to wealth management. Few even think for themselves, as it’s easier to allow others to think for us. We’re herded into ideological pens and a thousand straws are used to suck our time and labor away.
We are farmed, and only a few of us have enough sense to realize that the fence is an illusion. The rest eagerly run to the trough when it is filled.
To think that gold is not another method of transferring wealth is foolish and dangerously hopeful for those who don’t fully understand the monetary-agricultural techniques which are used on the disorganized masses. There. That’s my philosophical and conspiratorial rant for the day.
Bruno de Landevoisin One final comment J.C. The value of Gold is not at all about inflation.
It’s the only proven wealth protection insurance hedge against monetary collapses, which occur regularly every 200 years or so.
It becomes especially crucial to hold when the current monetary system is in jeopardy, and about to become unhinged, as it is today……
I hope the IMF SDR becomes the next global monetary construct, but I fear you put way too much trust in mankind’s hands.
Human-beings only come to their senses after they are slammed in the face through much turmoil and suffering. What makes you so sure that today’s leaders are any different? I would readily make the case that our current global leadership is perhaps even more suspect than those that came before.
JC Collins Alan, thanks for the support and additional research you provide. You are definitely an asset to this site my friend. Bruno and I approach this monetary shift from different positions. And that’s okay. He has always been polite and courteous, and I appreciate that. You both strike me as gentlemen. I wish I could say the same about myself.
Bruno de Landevoisin My friend, Advertising for PMs on J.C. site is the least of my objective here whatsoever. I actually posted this anti-Gold article on my site;-)
I consider myself JC’s friend, and actually post all his Free POM on my free blog: http://ift.tt/1BBQWoH Best, Bruno
Speedspirit Appreciate the education and the opportunity to debate, I hold no grudge, I mean no harm. Thank you.
hugovictor54 Dear J.C.: When the whole thing blows up come down to Arkansas with me and drink some whiskey. We can shoot some deer and catch some fish. Bring the wife, it’s not so bad. Jack
pedrofalls Gold and the high fever it has always been able to infect man with remains as contagious today as it was since the soft shine was first discovered. A malarial madness, delirium tremens, sweating, trembling, anxiety, confusion and hallucinations gold ,gold. That *** gold!!
Where is it? Who’s got it? What are they going to do with it? Why, why, why and when to buy when to sell and when does the love of it condemn one to hell.
Ya gotta admit it, that ***gold is one emotional metal, but it doesn’t have to be. Right , wrong or indifferent it is not a investment that should be made in a fever.
Most gold mine’s are a hole in the ground with a liar standing on the rim of it, I always have wanted to use that line and for what it’s worth now I have. Good day.
Excitableone JC, do you think any of this ties into an ET disclosure/cabal/illuminati downfall? I love your articles and feel very connected to the information provided. You have been very informative. I also appreciate your spirit and demeanor.
chuc1997 JC, gold is falling because China is buying so much physical gold. The price of gold you cite is a “claim check” on a gold deposit. China is asking for the actual gold.
There is a bank run going on. Gold futures will go towards $0. At some point before it gets there, it will stop trading in dollars. Then it will trade in either CNY or SDR at a price converted back to USD that is so high it will make your eyes water.
If this does not happen then the only investments you will need will be friends, farmland and shotguns because the financial world will have ended.
JC Collins That comment is, unfortunately, loaded with unsubstantiated and doom-porn positions. I can’t formulate a proper response. Sorry my friend.
chuc1997 Gold trades at 4,000 in Brazil Real; 7,000 in RMB; 70,000 in RUB…you call for the devaluation of USD v EM currencies through SDR. So why will gold not ultimately be much higher in USD?
JC Collins The dollar and gold may depreciate together for a period of time. The argument that gold increases when the dollar decreases is extremely simplistic and should be investigated further.
Just because the USD depreciates doesn’t mean that demand for gold will increase. Using a trade weighted index, there is a precedent of a tandem depreciation in both. As stated in another response, I may write more on that this evening.
Bruno de Landevoisin The Honorable Gold Backed Dollar - The Strategic Petro Backed Dollar -- The Current Bomb Backed Dollar Kaboom!!!!!
Back to the honorable Gold backed Dollar -- Same as it ever was…………;-)
Bausser (@bausser) Hello all and thank you JC for setting up this forum; you may have explained this somewhere else but why do you think the USD gold price will fall when the RMB inclusion into the SDR basket and the resultant re-balancing of reserves will depreciate the USD?
Also the case has been made that if the rates increase in December the money velocity may finally increase putting pressure on the USD; in both scenarios the (paper) gold price in USD should rise, no?
JC Collins That is the logic that most follow. But what isn’t considered is the massive renminbi liquidity market which will be created in the coming months. The demand for renminbi will provide an alternative to the USD as it moderately depreciates by 20% to 30%.
The key to all of this is when will China end the dollar peg and allow the RMB to freely float. That time frame could very well dictate when the dollar begins to depreciate. As for gold going up when the dollar goes down, that assumption, though correct for the most part, is not always a guarantee.
We could see a period of time, especially during the initial phase of reserve diversification, where gold and the dollar both depreciate together. I may write more on this later this evening as I’m sitting in a hotel room in Vancouver and have little else to do.
David d Aylward (@Aylward5) The IMF at times has served as a conduit for private bank investment in EM economies. IMF provides the policies and private banks provide the bulk of the liquidity.
The IMF also helps mitigate default risk by being the first and sometimes only party to restructure its loan(thanks taxpayers!). Without a strong and deeply liquid private bank sector with a large customer base to sell to, I don’t know how China benefits much.
Western banks who have been investing in emerging markets for decades if not centuries and have been successfully partnering with the IMF to enter markets for years. Could RMB inclusion, at this point, be mainly for China’s political and economic influence to open up more of the Asian markets for private foreign investment?
Unless the IMF allows a more market oriented approach to its SDR composition I can’t see how it serves as a widely used reserve asset. I say all of this as pure humble speculation of course, Thanks!
JC Collins That is correct David. The inclusion of the RMB in the SDR will allow for a broader renminbi liquidity market, which will support a larger allocation of SDR. New SDR can be created through substitution or a straight issuance. There has to be some changes to the SDR in order to make it a liquid market itself, such as issuing SDR bonds. We are in the preliminary steps.
DiamondDave JC, The price of gold is going down. The REAL question is…where is the bottom? That is the million dollar question…
JC Collins That really is the question David. I’m truly only hoping it bottoms around $800.00. But hope doesn’t achieve the right results if it isn’t supported by proper planning and a diversified strategy.
Tony Graupp Greetings again JC…. About your devaluation of gold vs the dollar… Remember from history back in 1933, when FDR wanted to devalue the dollar he called in all the gold at $20+ and soon there after revalued gold up to $32+…. Thereby devaluing the dollar, [as the price of gold went up]..
I’m sorry, but I see a flaw in your argument Take Care Tony
ps…Time will tell….They’ve had the price of gold caped now for several decades….it’ll be interesting to see if they can keep the lid on….They couldn’t back in 1968-71 period with the London Gold Pool….and gold took off several years after that and went to $800/oz in 1980….
Comex started trading gold futures in 1975, and they still could cap it from going to $800.. In Paul Volkers book, he admitted his biggest mistake at the Fed was not capping gold….
JC Collins We can’t expect the same thing to happen again. In the year 1933 the US was a trade surplus country and its currency hadn’t accumulated in large amounts in the foreign exchange accounts around the world. There is no comparison to the monetary realities of today.
Can you please provide documentation and links supporting the claim that “the price of gold has been capped now for several decades”? Thanks.
Raymond36 Exclusive: China’s yuan may enter IMF basket with lower share – sources I hope the link works It was in Reuters yesterday
JC Collins This was the link you wanted to share:
http://ift.tt/1OVUREG
I would interpret this as political pressure to decrease the weighting of the RMB from the 14% to 16% range down to 10%.
http://ift.tt/1X8wuD5
http://ift.tt/1ORfxxD
http://ift.tt/1X8wuCN
http://ift.tt/1SX3MUW
DiamondDave JC, The price of gold is going down. The REAL question is…where is the bottom? That is the million dollar question…
JC Collins That really is the question David. I’m truly only hoping it bottoms around $800.00. But hope doesn’t achieve the right results if it isn’t supported by proper planning and a diversified strategy.
Tony Graupp Greetings again JC…. About your devaluation of gold vs the dollar… Remember from history back in 1933, when FDR wanted to devalue the dollar he called in all the gold at $20+ and soon there after revalued gold up to $32+…. Thereby devaluing the dollar, [as the price of gold went up]..
I’m sorry, but I see a flaw in your argument Take Care Tony
ps…Time will tell….They’ve had the price of gold caped now for several decades….it’ll be interesting to see if they can keep the lid on….They couldn’t back in 1968-71 period with the London Gold Pool….and gold took off several years after that and went to $800/oz in 1980….
Comex started trading gold futures in 1975, and they still could cap it from going to $800.. In Paul Volkers book, he admitted his biggest mistake at the Fed was not capping gold….
JC Collins We can’t expect the same thing to happen again. In the year 1933 the US was a trade surplus country and its currency hadn’t accumulated in large amounts in the foreign exchange accounts around the world. There is no comparison to the monetary realities of today.
Can you please provide documentation and links supporting the claim that “the price of gold has been capped now for several decades”? Thanks.
Raymond36 Exclusive: China’s yuan may enter IMF basket with lower share – sources I hope the link works It was in Reuters yesterday
JC Collins This was the link you wanted to share:
http://ift.tt/1OVUREG
I would interpret this as political pressure to decrease the weighting of the RMB from the 14% to 16% range down to 10%.
http://ift.tt/1X8wuD5
http://ift.tt/1ORfxxD
http://ift.tt/1X8wuCN
http://ift.tt/1SX3MUW
via Dinar Recaps - Our Blog http://ift.tt/1OVUREI
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