NOTE: THIS POST WAS TAKEN FROM THE CHAT FRIDAY NIGHT AT JESTER'S PLACE... THERE IS IMPORTANT REFERENCE INFORMATION AT THE END OF THE POST... IT IS NOT MY INTENTION FOR THIS TO BE MISCONSTRUED AS PROFESSIONAL ADVICE... YOU SHOULD NOT BE GETTING ADVICE OF THIS NATURE FROM A CHAT ROOM... PLEASE SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE FROM A CPA/TAX ATTORNEY THAT CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS REGARDING TAX MATTERS WITH YOUR CURRENCY EXCHANGE...
[Jester] DiddyKong I HAVE A LITTLE OTHER SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO GET OUT TO DINAR LAND THAT I WOULD LIKE TO COVER...
[kirbycat94] Jester I'm used to it by now. Nothing shocks me anymore
[Jester] INTERESTING CALL... WITH AN EMAIL FOLLOW UP... LET'S EXIT THE FISHBOWL FOR A FEW MINUTES... YOU GAME?
[DiddyKong] Jester awesome. Floor is all yours friend
....
Read More Link on Right
[Jester] DiddyKong I HAVE A LITTLE OTHER SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO GET OUT TO DINAR LAND THAT I WOULD LIKE TO COVER...
[kirbycat94] Jester I'm used to it by now. Nothing shocks me anymore
[Jester] INTERESTING CALL... WITH AN EMAIL FOLLOW UP... LET'S EXIT THE FISHBOWL FOR A FEW MINUTES... YOU GAME?
[DiddyKong] Jester awesome. Floor is all yours friend
....
Read More Link on Right
[Jester] SO... CERTAIN INFORMATION ON THE FINCEN IS BEING CIRCULATED AROUND... ONCE IN DINAR LAND YOU SEE IT OR HEAR IT... IT GETS ON CALLS AND BOARDS... I AM GOING TO SHARE THIS EMAIL IN 3 PARTS..
[Jester] PART ONE...
[Jester] Somebody posted/reported: Two FINCEN forms have been provided by the IRS. One specifically identifies these transactions as "currency exchange" transactions. The other refers to them as "currency investments.
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] Whoever wrote the words talking about the FinCEN Forms has no idea what they are talking about.
[Jester] The reports referred to are titled “Currency Transaction Report” (Form 104) and are issued by the Department of the Treasury. And have nothing to do with the Internal Revenue Service.
[Jester] Each financial institution must file the FinCEN Form 104 for each deposit, withdrawal, exchange of currency, or other payment or transfer, by, through, or to the financial institution which involves a transaction in currency of more than $10,000.
[Jester] PART 2...
[Jester] DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES sign any document which treats your exchange as a "currency investment" or you will wind up paying as much as 39.5% in taxes! "Currency Investments" will being taxed as Capital Gains
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] The tax advice they give in paragraph number two is incorrect. There is no 39.5% tax. The rate is 39.6% and the contemplated transaction will not be taxed as a capital gain no matter what you want to call it.
[Jester] PART 3...
[Jester] The proper and ONLY form is Form 104. It already states "Currency "Exchange" in Part II number 33. "Currency "Exchange" (tax unknown, possibly 11%)
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] Paragraph number three is correct in that Form 104, Part II, item #33 does have a check the box as “Currency Exchange(s)”, but that is all that is correct about paragraph number three in the email you sent. The remainder of paragraph is just Wrong. The tax is known and the rate is not 11%.
[Jester] SYNOPSIS...
[Jester] I would like for you to go backward in this email and get my reply to the person that this information came from and have them call me. This type of incorrect information on the internet could hurt a lot of people. Whoever wrote this is simply WRONG and does not know what they are talking about.
[Jester] END OF EMAIL...
[AdmrKris] Jester Many thanks. I've been trying to figure out the validity & correctness of that form.
[Jester] NOW... THIS CAME FROM A PROFESSIONAL CPA/TAX ATTORNEY.... THE POINT HERE IS THIS... THIS KIND OF STUFF IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF REASON THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE GETTING ADVISE OF THIS TYPE FROM OUT OF THE DANG FISHBOWL... YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU GET HELP FROM PROFESSIONALS AND MAKE SURE YOU GET IT DONE RIGHT...
[princessA] Thank you
[texas77] Jester where does you viewpoint fit into this dialogue? My reluctance to tax professionals is that no one seems to really know the tax situation with our very exceptional situation.
[Jester] AND TRULY.... THIS GOES BACK TO THE EARLIER DISCUSSION OF DINAR LAND AND THE FISHBOWL ITSELF... ARE YOU ON THE INSIDE LOOKING OUT OR THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN? TIME TO MAKE A DECISION FOR YOURSELF AND GET OUT OF THE DANG FISHBOWL...
[zorro] Jester CE then hire the best of the best! IMO
[princessA] We need to pass on this tax info jester
[Jester] texas77 THE CPA/TAX ATTORNEY WILL KNOW... MINE DOES... I HAVE A PLAN ALL SET UP...
[rockymtn] Jester We have a financial advisor in this, a trust attorney (in this), and an accountant - and they still believe it's a grey area - although it will probably be capital gains if the currency exchange profit is over $200.
[texas77] Jester clearly I need your tax attorney.
[texas1837] Jester tks for that. I have thought this all along, so maybe now my husband will be convinced.
[Jester] rockymtn I AGREE WITH THAT... AND IT WILL FOLLOW THE CAPITAL GAINS TOO FROM WHAT I AM TOLD... YOUR INVESTMENT OVER A YEAR OR NOT?
[rockymtn] Jester dinar - over a year; dong - this year.
[citizensoldier] texas77 Many Tax and Legal Professionals "drink" from the same trough... Once the Rate is live and the great exchange begins, many CPA's and Tax Attorney's will know more than they do now.
[Jester] THERE ARE LOTS OF QUESTIONS.... BUT I AM GOING WITH THE CPA/TAX GUY... MY GUY HAS E&O INSURANCE IF HE MESSES UP... LOL
[citizensoldier] Be certain that the Errors and Omissions Insurance policies which are in place are substantial enough to cover "your" buns.
[Jester] citizensoldier FOR SURE...
NOW... AFTER THE ROOM CLOSED I DID A BIT OF RESEARCHING... I REMEMBERED THAT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE THIS FORM WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE GONE ELECTRONIC... HERE IS THE INFORMATION THAT I FOUND... I HOPE IT HELPS YOU...
IT TURNS OUT THAT THE FINCEN FORM 104 HAS BEEN REPLACED WITH THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112.... CTR = CURRENCY TRANSACTION REPORT... NOW THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION FROM THE CHAT ROOM ANY LESS ACCURATE IN MY OPINION AS THE FINCEN FORM 112 IS SIMPLY THE ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THE FINCEN FORM 104....
AND JUST TO BE ACCURATE... THERE WAS ALSO AN ELECTRONIC FORM OF THE FINCEN FORM 104 THAT LOOKED JUST THE SAME AS THE PRINTED FORM... THIS COEXISTED WITH THE PRINTED VERSION AND THE NEW VERSION OF THE FORM... BOTH THE PAPER AND ELECTRONIC VERSIONS WERE KNOWN AS LEGACY VERSIONS...
THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112 IS ACTUALLY DESCRIBED AS AN ELECTRONIC DATA COLLECTION DEVICE... IT IS BASICALLY THE ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL FORM 104... HOWEVER IT DOES NOT LOOK THE SAME AND HAS SOME ADDITIONAL COMPLIANCE ISSUES REGARDING THE BANKS...
BANKS HAD TO START USING THIS FORM ON APRIL 1, 2013... UP UNTIL THAT TIME EITHER OF THE THREE FORMS COULD BE USED... BUT AFTER MARCH 30, 2013 THE LEGACY FORM 104 IN EITHER PAPER OR ELECTRONIC FORM WAS NO LONGER ACCEPTED...
HERE IS A SHORT VIDEO FROM 2012 EXPLAINING THE CHANGEOVER FROM THE FORM 104 TO THE FORM 112...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67bZMtSCXY (Preview)
HERE IS THE GOVERNMENT FINCEN WEBSITE WHERE SOME OF THE OTHER LINKS REFERENCED BELOW COME FROM...
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/bsa_forms/
HERE IS A SLIDESHOW OVERVIEW OF THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112... IT ALSO SHOWS THE EFFECTIVE DATE REQUIREMENT...
http://www.fincen.gov/whatsnew/pdf/CTR&DOEPRecordedVersion-PDFslides.pdf
HERE IS MORE INFORMATION THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS FORM... BUT IT IS GOOD INFORMATION TO LOOK AT FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT YOU WILL SEE WHAT INFORMATION THEY ARE LIKELY TO WANT FROM YOU AND WHAT THEY ARE USING IT FOR... GET A BOTTLE OF 5 HOUR ENERGY FOR THIS ONE... IT IS A GOVERNMENT FORM... LOL...
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/FinCEN%20CTR%20ElectronicFilingInstructions%20-%20Stand%20Alone%20doc.pdf#page=2
SO ANYWAY... I HOPE THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU.... I WILL STILL ADVISE YOU TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE REGARDING TAX MATTERS... AGAIN... DO YOU REALLY THINK TAKING TAX ADVICE FROM A CHAT ROOM IS A GOOD IDEA?... THIS INFORMATION INTENDED TO HELP YOU BE A LITTLE MORE EDUCATED ON THE MATTER SO YOU KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK WHEN YOU ARE VETTING OUT YOUR POTENTIAL PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES...
[Jester] PART ONE...
[Jester] Somebody posted/reported: Two FINCEN forms have been provided by the IRS. One specifically identifies these transactions as "currency exchange" transactions. The other refers to them as "currency investments.
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] Whoever wrote the words talking about the FinCEN Forms has no idea what they are talking about.
[Jester] The reports referred to are titled “Currency Transaction Report” (Form 104) and are issued by the Department of the Treasury. And have nothing to do with the Internal Revenue Service.
[Jester] Each financial institution must file the FinCEN Form 104 for each deposit, withdrawal, exchange of currency, or other payment or transfer, by, through, or to the financial institution which involves a transaction in currency of more than $10,000.
[Jester] PART 2...
[Jester] DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES sign any document which treats your exchange as a "currency investment" or you will wind up paying as much as 39.5% in taxes! "Currency Investments" will being taxed as Capital Gains
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] The tax advice they give in paragraph number two is incorrect. There is no 39.5% tax. The rate is 39.6% and the contemplated transaction will not be taxed as a capital gain no matter what you want to call it.
[Jester] PART 3...
[Jester] The proper and ONLY form is Form 104. It already states "Currency "Exchange" in Part II number 33. "Currency "Exchange" (tax unknown, possibly 11%)
[Jester] RESPONSE...
[Jester] Paragraph number three is correct in that Form 104, Part II, item #33 does have a check the box as “Currency Exchange(s)”, but that is all that is correct about paragraph number three in the email you sent. The remainder of paragraph is just Wrong. The tax is known and the rate is not 11%.
[Jester] SYNOPSIS...
[Jester] I would like for you to go backward in this email and get my reply to the person that this information came from and have them call me. This type of incorrect information on the internet could hurt a lot of people. Whoever wrote this is simply WRONG and does not know what they are talking about.
[Jester] END OF EMAIL...
[AdmrKris] Jester Many thanks. I've been trying to figure out the validity & correctness of that form.
[Jester] NOW... THIS CAME FROM A PROFESSIONAL CPA/TAX ATTORNEY.... THE POINT HERE IS THIS... THIS KIND OF STUFF IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF REASON THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE GETTING ADVISE OF THIS TYPE FROM OUT OF THE DANG FISHBOWL... YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU GET HELP FROM PROFESSIONALS AND MAKE SURE YOU GET IT DONE RIGHT...
[princessA] Thank you
[texas77] Jester where does you viewpoint fit into this dialogue? My reluctance to tax professionals is that no one seems to really know the tax situation with our very exceptional situation.
[Jester] AND TRULY.... THIS GOES BACK TO THE EARLIER DISCUSSION OF DINAR LAND AND THE FISHBOWL ITSELF... ARE YOU ON THE INSIDE LOOKING OUT OR THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN? TIME TO MAKE A DECISION FOR YOURSELF AND GET OUT OF THE DANG FISHBOWL...
[zorro] Jester CE then hire the best of the best! IMO
[princessA] We need to pass on this tax info jester
[Jester] texas77 THE CPA/TAX ATTORNEY WILL KNOW... MINE DOES... I HAVE A PLAN ALL SET UP...
[rockymtn] Jester We have a financial advisor in this, a trust attorney (in this), and an accountant - and they still believe it's a grey area - although it will probably be capital gains if the currency exchange profit is over $200.
[texas77] Jester clearly I need your tax attorney.
[texas1837] Jester tks for that. I have thought this all along, so maybe now my husband will be convinced.
[Jester] rockymtn I AGREE WITH THAT... AND IT WILL FOLLOW THE CAPITAL GAINS TOO FROM WHAT I AM TOLD... YOUR INVESTMENT OVER A YEAR OR NOT?
[rockymtn] Jester dinar - over a year; dong - this year.
[citizensoldier] texas77 Many Tax and Legal Professionals "drink" from the same trough... Once the Rate is live and the great exchange begins, many CPA's and Tax Attorney's will know more than they do now.
[Jester] THERE ARE LOTS OF QUESTIONS.... BUT I AM GOING WITH THE CPA/TAX GUY... MY GUY HAS E&O INSURANCE IF HE MESSES UP... LOL
[citizensoldier] Be certain that the Errors and Omissions Insurance policies which are in place are substantial enough to cover "your" buns.
[Jester] citizensoldier FOR SURE...
NOW... AFTER THE ROOM CLOSED I DID A BIT OF RESEARCHING... I REMEMBERED THAT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE THIS FORM WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE GONE ELECTRONIC... HERE IS THE INFORMATION THAT I FOUND... I HOPE IT HELPS YOU...
IT TURNS OUT THAT THE FINCEN FORM 104 HAS BEEN REPLACED WITH THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112.... CTR = CURRENCY TRANSACTION REPORT... NOW THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION FROM THE CHAT ROOM ANY LESS ACCURATE IN MY OPINION AS THE FINCEN FORM 112 IS SIMPLY THE ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THE FINCEN FORM 104....
AND JUST TO BE ACCURATE... THERE WAS ALSO AN ELECTRONIC FORM OF THE FINCEN FORM 104 THAT LOOKED JUST THE SAME AS THE PRINTED FORM... THIS COEXISTED WITH THE PRINTED VERSION AND THE NEW VERSION OF THE FORM... BOTH THE PAPER AND ELECTRONIC VERSIONS WERE KNOWN AS LEGACY VERSIONS...
THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112 IS ACTUALLY DESCRIBED AS AN ELECTRONIC DATA COLLECTION DEVICE... IT IS BASICALLY THE ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL FORM 104... HOWEVER IT DOES NOT LOOK THE SAME AND HAS SOME ADDITIONAL COMPLIANCE ISSUES REGARDING THE BANKS...
BANKS HAD TO START USING THIS FORM ON APRIL 1, 2013... UP UNTIL THAT TIME EITHER OF THE THREE FORMS COULD BE USED... BUT AFTER MARCH 30, 2013 THE LEGACY FORM 104 IN EITHER PAPER OR ELECTRONIC FORM WAS NO LONGER ACCEPTED...
HERE IS A SHORT VIDEO FROM 2012 EXPLAINING THE CHANGEOVER FROM THE FORM 104 TO THE FORM 112...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67bZMtSCXY (Preview)
HERE IS THE GOVERNMENT FINCEN WEBSITE WHERE SOME OF THE OTHER LINKS REFERENCED BELOW COME FROM...
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/bsa_forms/
HERE IS A SLIDESHOW OVERVIEW OF THE FINCEN CTR FORM 112... IT ALSO SHOWS THE EFFECTIVE DATE REQUIREMENT...
http://www.fincen.gov/whatsnew/pdf/CTR&DOEPRecordedVersion-PDFslides.pdf
HERE IS MORE INFORMATION THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY EVER WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS FORM... BUT IT IS GOOD INFORMATION TO LOOK AT FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT YOU WILL SEE WHAT INFORMATION THEY ARE LIKELY TO WANT FROM YOU AND WHAT THEY ARE USING IT FOR... GET A BOTTLE OF 5 HOUR ENERGY FOR THIS ONE... IT IS A GOVERNMENT FORM... LOL...
http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/FinCEN%20CTR%20ElectronicFilingInstructions%20-%20Stand%20Alone%20doc.pdf#page=2
SO ANYWAY... I HOPE THIS INFORMATION HELPS YOU.... I WILL STILL ADVISE YOU TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE REGARDING TAX MATTERS... AGAIN... DO YOU REALLY THINK TAKING TAX ADVICE FROM A CHAT ROOM IS A GOOD IDEA?... THIS INFORMATION INTENDED TO HELP YOU BE A LITTLE MORE EDUCATED ON THE MATTER SO YOU KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK WHEN YOU ARE VETTING OUT YOUR POTENTIAL PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES...
via Dinar Recaps - Our Blog http://www.dinarrecaps.com/1/post/2013/09/jester-fincen-form-chat-from-friday-night-emailed-to-recaps.html
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